shamino
Jul 14, 05:26 PM
Kind of odd/funny how we seem to be going backwards in processor speeds. Instead of 3.6 GHz Pentiums, we are looking at 2.x GHz Intel Cores. It would be interesting to see how well a single Core processor matches up to PowerPC, or a Pentium, or AMD.
It just means that Intel has finally publicly recognized the validity of the MHz Myth.
Raw clock speed is meaningless. You can get better performance at a slower clock speed if you can increase parallelism. This includes features like superscalar architecture (where multiple instructions are executed per clock), deep pipelining, hyperthreading, SIMD instructions, and multi-core chips.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
That's a part of the equation, but not all of it.
Higher clock speeds are possible, but it's not worth the effort. Pumping up the clock speed creates serious problems in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation. Leaving the clock speed lower, but increasing parallelism will also boost performance, and keeps the power curve down at manageable levels.
It's worth noting that Intel has shipped P4-series chips at 3.4GHz. But the new chips (Woodcrest and Conroe) aren't being sold at speeds above 3GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
(FWIW, Intel is looking to Sun as a rival here. Sun's latest chip - the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) - currently ships in an 8-core configuration, with each core capable of running four threads at a time, and only consuming 72W of power. Even at 1.2GHz - the top speed they're currently shipping at - this makes for a very nice server.)
It just means that Intel has finally publicly recognized the validity of the MHz Myth.
Raw clock speed is meaningless. You can get better performance at a slower clock speed if you can increase parallelism. This includes features like superscalar architecture (where multiple instructions are executed per clock), deep pipelining, hyperthreading, SIMD instructions, and multi-core chips.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
That's a part of the equation, but not all of it.
Higher clock speeds are possible, but it's not worth the effort. Pumping up the clock speed creates serious problems in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation. Leaving the clock speed lower, but increasing parallelism will also boost performance, and keeps the power curve down at manageable levels.
It's worth noting that Intel has shipped P4-series chips at 3.4GHz. But the new chips (Woodcrest and Conroe) aren't being sold at speeds above 3GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
(FWIW, Intel is looking to Sun as a rival here. Sun's latest chip - the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) - currently ships in an 8-core configuration, with each core capable of running four threads at a time, and only consuming 72W of power. Even at 1.2GHz - the top speed they're currently shipping at - this makes for a very nice server.)
sikkinixx
Aug 25, 07:28 PM
You should demand a replacement or refund
when i pick it up from the service center I had it at (its not an Apple store since we don't have them in Canada) I'm gonna ring up Apple and ask them wtf is going on. It never did it before I got the new Logic board but buddy at the place I took it said Apple said it wasn't a logic board problem.
when i pick it up from the service center I had it at (its not an Apple store since we don't have them in Canada) I'm gonna ring up Apple and ask them wtf is going on. It never did it before I got the new Logic board but buddy at the place I took it said Apple said it wasn't a logic board problem.
ugp
Jun 11, 12:21 PM
My DM told me we can open anytime we want to no later than 8am. I have a best buy and ATT corporate store directly accross the street from me. Im waiting for them to announce when they are opening and ill be open 1 hr before them if they open at 6am, im openening at 5am.
I can't see Radio Shack being able to open and sell iPhones before Apple does. Granted your store isn't actually opening, it's for iPhone Customers only before normal business hours.
I am still waiting for my buddy that is a Manager to get an answer from his DM. He spoke up and asked about it on his Conference call this morning.
I can't see Radio Shack being able to open and sell iPhones before Apple does. Granted your store isn't actually opening, it's for iPhone Customers only before normal business hours.
I am still waiting for my buddy that is a Manager to get an answer from his DM. He spoke up and asked about it on his Conference call this morning.
cfedu
Apr 11, 06:59 PM
Maybe they need to wait in order to get 28/32nm A5 chips. No point in having an iPhone 5 with a 3 hour battery life
Dunepilot
Nov 29, 08:13 AM
Stopping short of a foul-mouthed tirade against Universal and the other majors ... just.
Vinyl and FairplayAAC only for me these days. Screw these jokers.
Vinyl and FairplayAAC only for me these days. Screw these jokers.
z4n3
Apr 25, 03:55 PM
My PERSONAL view!
I think this is all just media hype, if people were to think about this a little bit and put the Apple aside maybe there would not be so many rants on this thread.
We are all tracked every day! by the Telcos, credit card companies, ATM`s, immigration and customs, Airlines, etc. etc.
The only real people that this should bother are criminals, and you know that no criminal has a mobile phone in his real name or on his person, not even satellite phones.. as mobile phones have always been able to be tracked via the telcos cell towers! so this is nothing new, just because it has the magic letter "i" before it iTrackU is kicking up a storm, but as the saying goes all publicity is good publicity, and nobody can trump Apple on this front. I for one could not give a rats A*** what they do with my GPS coordinates, as the Tax office, My telco companies, and Bank have more details on me that what this file has.
I think this is all just media hype, if people were to think about this a little bit and put the Apple aside maybe there would not be so many rants on this thread.
We are all tracked every day! by the Telcos, credit card companies, ATM`s, immigration and customs, Airlines, etc. etc.
The only real people that this should bother are criminals, and you know that no criminal has a mobile phone in his real name or on his person, not even satellite phones.. as mobile phones have always been able to be tracked via the telcos cell towers! so this is nothing new, just because it has the magic letter "i" before it iTrackU is kicking up a storm, but as the saying goes all publicity is good publicity, and nobody can trump Apple on this front. I for one could not give a rats A*** what they do with my GPS coordinates, as the Tax office, My telco companies, and Bank have more details on me that what this file has.
Bengt77
Aug 17, 04:11 PM
I'll just wait until the 4GHZ Mac Pro. I wonder what that bad boy can do.:rolleyes:
Yeah. I'm waiting for the 16GHz Mac Pro Super Duper Ultra Extreme. Boy, you don't even want to know what that machine will be able to do...
Yeah. I'm waiting for the 16GHz Mac Pro Super Duper Ultra Extreme. Boy, you don't even want to know what that machine will be able to do...
ugp
Jun 15, 12:48 PM
My buddy was able to get my PIN to generate but every ticket after will not. He did my ticket for me at 1:00EST on the dot.
Hopefully I get it. If not I will wait I guess until it comes in. In the end it's just a phone.
Hopefully I get it. If not I will wait I guess until it comes in. In the end it's just a phone.
MikeD23nu
Apr 6, 06:26 PM
I just got my low end 13" MacBook Air with 4GB of RAM today too. Should I keep it?
Me too! It's killing me...don't know what to do.
Me too! It's killing me...don't know what to do.
MacRumors
Aug 11, 10:05 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Despite being uncharacteristic of the secretive Steve Jobs we have grown to know, AppleInsider reports that the Apple CEO has been boasting about Apple's upcoming phone offering (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1959) to his inner circle. Apparently, Steve's own excitement over the product has lead him to produce a few "zealous ramblings" dating back as early as this past spring.
AppleInsider also offers a little more information (although cryptic) on the characteristics of the phone.
One person familiar with the ongoings believes the Apple cofounder has commissioned the release of cell phone prototypes to at least two potential OEM manufacturing partners in recent months. Current designs are said to conform to Apple's integrated model and leverage its tightly-knit digital media franchises, that person added.
In addition, AppleInsider quotes a source who states that the phone is indeed set to launch "earlier than some people may be expecting, in the form of a 'big bang' introduction that will catch even some insiders off-guard." ThinkSecret has previously stated that the phone has seen delays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060330174059.shtml) that could set it back as far as next year, whereas Engadget has recently stated that the phone could arrive as early as this month (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060729213347.shtml).
Despite being uncharacteristic of the secretive Steve Jobs we have grown to know, AppleInsider reports that the Apple CEO has been boasting about Apple's upcoming phone offering (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1959) to his inner circle. Apparently, Steve's own excitement over the product has lead him to produce a few "zealous ramblings" dating back as early as this past spring.
AppleInsider also offers a little more information (although cryptic) on the characteristics of the phone.
One person familiar with the ongoings believes the Apple cofounder has commissioned the release of cell phone prototypes to at least two potential OEM manufacturing partners in recent months. Current designs are said to conform to Apple's integrated model and leverage its tightly-knit digital media franchises, that person added.
In addition, AppleInsider quotes a source who states that the phone is indeed set to launch "earlier than some people may be expecting, in the form of a 'big bang' introduction that will catch even some insiders off-guard." ThinkSecret has previously stated that the phone has seen delays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060330174059.shtml) that could set it back as far as next year, whereas Engadget has recently stated that the phone could arrive as early as this month (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060729213347.shtml).
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
skunk
Mar 22, 07:57 AM
Are you suggesting that Obama has gotten comparable treatment from the media as compared to Bush? No. I think what I am suggesting in my post is perfectly clear. Perhaps you would like to read it again, this time without trying to insert your large collection of straw men into my argument.
If you actually want change, vote for Ron Paul, vote for fiscal responsibility, vote for small government and non intervention. Vote for the destruction bailouts, stimulus, subsidies, and all other forms of crony-capitalism.I do not expect to be voting for any of your hopeless politicians. We have enough of our own.
If you actually want change, vote for Ron Paul, vote for fiscal responsibility, vote for small government and non intervention. Vote for the destruction bailouts, stimulus, subsidies, and all other forms of crony-capitalism.I do not expect to be voting for any of your hopeless politicians. We have enough of our own.
thejakill
Mar 22, 01:00 PM
I hope these catch on enough that I can actually buy an iPad.
sunfast
Aug 11, 10:09 AM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.
US Marine
Apr 19, 02:51 PM
Some of you guys are the most hardheaded diehard Apple fanboys imaginable. It really is hilarious to watch you argue about this. Keep it up...for the lulz! :D
Hugh
Mar 3, 10:23 PM
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
That is because we are ugly bags of water. ;)
aby shower thank you gifts.
thank you card sayings. Baby
Guys, thank you so much for
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
That is because we are ugly bags of water. ;)
mashinhead
Jul 27, 11:48 AM
Yes. I believe people who have gotten their hands on Core 2 Duo beta chips have put them in their mini's with no difference (except a massive speed boost)
so cn you put it in a mb too?
so cn you put it in a mb too?
BeefUK
Aug 27, 05:40 AM
Just looked at the shpping dates for the Core 2 Duo's listed on the dell site. There's an estimated shipping date of 11th September, so maybe the 5th is a more releastic release date for Apple's merom upgrade, whatever form it may come in.
Recently Apple's made new products avaliable to buy immediately they are announced. So looks like a little more waiting.
I'm hoping for a Macbook with Core 2 Duo 2GHz!!
Recently Apple's made new products avaliable to buy immediately they are announced. So looks like a little more waiting.
I'm hoping for a Macbook with Core 2 Duo 2GHz!!
triceretops
Apr 6, 08:36 PM
I would have bought one of the current generation if I could have gotten a 512 GB SSD.
4GB MBP i7 500GB 7200RPM
G4 400
G4 867
4GB MBP i7 500GB 7200RPM
G4 400
G4 867
magbarn
Apr 7, 11:45 PM
Good for Apple on this. One less retailer over charging for their products. I hope they pull the Apple stores out all together and find a new retail partner.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
sampdoria
Jun 14, 01:57 PM
What day? Tomorrow, Tuesday or Thursday?
Pre-order at Radio Shack tomorrow June 15th as early as they open.
Pre-order at Radio Shack tomorrow June 15th as early as they open.
AlligatorBloodz
Apr 8, 02:16 AM
Just to let y'all know, unless someone else knows otherwise, Best Buy makes zero off Apple product sales (that haven't been marked up).
I read this thread and I noted that someone pointed out that BB apparently marks up some items -Airports, Time Machines, etc. I found this odd since Apple controls all the pricing, but eh, not going to question that since those are the facts I'm assuming (can't be bothered to go on a comparing spree).
Anyway, the iPad 2s aren't marked up, thus they make zero.
Each department should be meeting their budget daily. How do they do that? By selling products they make notional margin and that allows that department to meet their budget. On a slow, sh-tty day, a department may only be 70% to budget; on a fast, awesome day, a department may be 110% to budget.
But when you make zero off iPad sales, keeping them away from customers does not help notional margin. Doesn't bring them any closer to hitting budget. The only way they'd make money on that iPad sale would be selling accessories or the Black Tie protection. But that's entirely something else.
Best Buy makes zero notional margin on iPad sales, so they're not withholding stock to meet daily budgets.
I can't explain why they're doing this, but given my knowledge, I can invalidate the claim that managers are hoarding iPads so that they can meet budget every day.
Cheers! :D
This is not entirely true. The apple tv2 best buy sells for $99 and best buys cost is around $90. Also, best buy honors student discounts on apple products. Apple does not reimburse bby for that. You really think bby is going to pay customers to buy apple products?
Anyway, I hate bby. I used to work there. Few of the employees give a **** about the customer.
I read this thread and I noted that someone pointed out that BB apparently marks up some items -Airports, Time Machines, etc. I found this odd since Apple controls all the pricing, but eh, not going to question that since those are the facts I'm assuming (can't be bothered to go on a comparing spree).
Anyway, the iPad 2s aren't marked up, thus they make zero.
Each department should be meeting their budget daily. How do they do that? By selling products they make notional margin and that allows that department to meet their budget. On a slow, sh-tty day, a department may only be 70% to budget; on a fast, awesome day, a department may be 110% to budget.
But when you make zero off iPad sales, keeping them away from customers does not help notional margin. Doesn't bring them any closer to hitting budget. The only way they'd make money on that iPad sale would be selling accessories or the Black Tie protection. But that's entirely something else.
Best Buy makes zero notional margin on iPad sales, so they're not withholding stock to meet daily budgets.
I can't explain why they're doing this, but given my knowledge, I can invalidate the claim that managers are hoarding iPads so that they can meet budget every day.
Cheers! :D
This is not entirely true. The apple tv2 best buy sells for $99 and best buys cost is around $90. Also, best buy honors student discounts on apple products. Apple does not reimburse bby for that. You really think bby is going to pay customers to buy apple products?
Anyway, I hate bby. I used to work there. Few of the employees give a **** about the customer.
ccrandall77
Aug 11, 03:47 PM
Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974
Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.
No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974
Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.
No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.
Sky Blue
Mar 26, 11:02 AM
what $500 product?
OS X Server
OS X Server
No comments:
Post a Comment